Posts Tagged ‘New York Marathon’

Chicago Marathon vs New York Marathon

I had the pleasure of running the New York City Marathon in 2017 and the Chicago Marathon in 2018. In this post I’ll compare the two races. I hope one day you get to run them both but if you have to choose, maybe this will help you decide. I also have posts comparing Chicago to Boston and New York to Boston

Getting a bib

Lottery

RegisterForNYCOne does not simply register for the New York City or Chicago marathon.  Because so many runners want to complete these races, they use a lottery to award bibs.

The odds are much better for getting into Chicago through the lottery

Race # Entries received # Entries selected % selected
Chicago 2015 54,800 29,044 53%
New York 2018 105,184 15,640 15%

New York actually does three separate lotteries from all the entries received.

  • NYC-metro area applicants (residents in and within 60 miles of New York City)
  • National applications (US residents)
  • International applicants (Non-US residents)

New York selects the same % of runners from each group. i.e. if 15% of applicants were accepted, then 15% of international runners who applied were accepted, 15% of applicants from within the US were selected and 15% of runners within NYC metro area were accepted.

Time Qualifier

racetimerBoth New York & Chicago offer guaranteed entry for those who run fast enough.

Time standards are harder to meet for New York and New York limits the number of time qualifier spots for those who qualify at non-NYRR races. They are awarded first come first served. So it’s important to claim your time qualifier spot as soon as registration opens for New York. Those who apply with a non-NYRR race qualifying time after the qualifying spots available is reached are placed in the general drawing.

Age group New York Men Chicago Men New York Women Chicago Women
18-29 2:53 3:10 3:13 3:30
30-34 2:53 3:15 3:13 3:45
35-39 2:55 3:15 3:15 3:45
40-44 2:58 3:25 3:26 3:55
45-49 3:05 3:25 3:38 3:55
50-54 3:14 3:40 3:51 4:10
55-59 3:23 3:40 4:10 4:10
60-64 3:34 4:00 4:27 4:35
65-69 3:45 4:00 4:50 4:35
70-74 4:10 4:30 5:30 5:10
75-79 4:30 4:30 6:00 5:10
80+ 4:55 5:00 6:35 5:45

New York is quite unique because it also has a half marathon time qualifier

Age group Men Women
18-34 1:21 1:32
35-39 1:23 1:34
40-44 1:25 1:37
45-49 1:28 1:42
50-54 1:32 1:49
55-59 1:36 1:54
60-64 1:41 2:02
65-69 1:46 2:12
70-74 1:57 2:27
75-79 2:07 2:40
80+ 2:15 2:50

Charity Entry

charityBoth races provide the opportunity to fundraise for an official race charity. to get a guaranteed entry to the race.

Chicago 2019 fundraising targets start at $1250 if you claim a charity entry during the application window and $1750 USD if you claim a charity entry after the application window (i.e. if you decide to enter the lottery, and don’t make it then decide to do a charity entry because you didn’t get in through the lottery, you have to fundraise more $)

New York 2019 fundraising targets start at $2500 USD.

Local races

shamrockBoth races provide options to help local runners get a guaranteed entry by participating in local races.

Chicago has the Shamrock Shuffle

If you have run the Shamrock Shuffle 8k four or more times in the past 10 years and have signed up for the next Shamrock Shuffle you can guarantee a spot in the Chicago marathon.

New York has the 9+1 or the 9+ $1K program.

If you join the NYRR who either complete 9 score, qualifying races in the year and either volunteer at one NYRR event in the same year or donate $1000 USD to NYRR your and community services program within the year can also get a guaranteed race entry.

Also, if you run the time qualifier at one of the NYRR qualifying races you are guaranteed an entry.

Tour Entry

If you really want to race either New York or Chicago and you have the financial means to do so you can purchase a tour package that includes a bib from one of the marathon tour partners.

Cancelled Entry

If you get into either New York or Chicago and are not going to run the race, you can cancel/defer your entry once. You lose the registration fee but it gives you a guaranteed entry the following year.runner

Pre-Race Experience

Packet pick up

Both Chicago and New York are well organized for packet pick up and both provide a shirt exchange if you discover the shirt size you ordered does not fit.

You must pick up your own race kit at both races. Don’t forget your government issued photo id!

Race swag

Official race gear at Chicago is sponsored by Nike. Nike focuses on running clothes for the official Chicago marathon gear. In 2018 they sold find t-shirts, long sleeved shirts, tank tops, visor, and jackets. If you want coffee mugs, laptop stickers, and cotton t-shirts you will have to explore other booths in the expo. You may also want to visit the Nike store on Michigan to purchase your official race merchandise, the lines were shorter, and they have a DJ and a fun atmosphere Friday and Saturday before the race. The Under Armour store just down the road from the Nike store on Michigan Ave also had some marathon branded running gear.

Official race gear at New York is sponsored by New Balance. There is an incredible assortment of official New York marathon merchandise. You can find the usual running gear, but also hoodies, backpacks, gloves, hats, mugs, and more. Chances are you will spend more money on official merchandise at the New York expo. You will find additional merchandise at other booths in the expo as well.

Pace bands

I picked up a pace band at the race expo in New York and ran into an interesting problem. My arms were not long enough :). Apparently I am now sufficiently old enough and sufficiently near sighted that it is difficult for me to read a pace band during the race. In Chicago, they had arm tattoos instead of pace bands. The font on the tattoos was nice and big so I was able to keep an eye on my target pace during the race.

Race morning

Getting to the start

New York

LadyLibertyThe New York marathon starts at Staten Island. To reach the start you can:

  • take the ferry and a shuttle bus (estimated travel time 90 minutes)
  • take a shuttle bus from New Jersey (estimated travel time 60 minutes)
  • take a shuttle bus from Manhattan (estimated travel time 90 minutes)

Of course you need to add time to get to the bus or ferry and to get on the bus or ferry. Plus the time to get through security (quite efficient did not take long), bag check, find your Dunkin Donuts hat and line up once or twice for the port-a-potty. Luckily the time change is usually the night before the race so your 5 AM alarm will feel like a 6 AM alarm!

If was in Wave 2, which had a 10:15 AM start and the cut-off to drop off bags was at 9:05 AM. I woke up at 5:30 AM, and was out the hotel door by about 6 AM to catch the 6:30 AM ferry. It’s so cool to see pass the Statue of Liberty on your way to the start, it really sets the mood “You are running New York!” But, walking to the ferry, waiting for the ferry, getting off the ferry,a long line for the shuttle bus, riding the shuttle bus, is a lot to deal with pre-race.  I only had about 10 minutes to spare before my bag check cut-off at 9:05 AM.

Chicago

The start is much earlier. Wave 1 starts at 7:30 AM. I was in wave 2, 8 AM start. I still set my alarm for 5 AM. My hotel, like many downtown Chicago hotels, was walking distance from the start line (I was at Ontario St and Michigan Ave).  All I had to do was walk. If you want to find a cheaper hotel, you can stay further from the start and take the Metro line to the start. Yes, the Metro will be packed with runners, the first train might even be too packed to get in, but once on that train, in 15-40 minutes you are at the start. Security is efficient and quick (just like New York).  You don’t have to worry about a bag check cut off time because the bag drop off and bag pick up are the same place. Since they don’t have to transport your gear anywhere, you can just drop it off 5 or 15 minutes before you walk over to your corral.  Getting to the start in Chicago is much less hassle and much less stress.

Port-a-potties

ChicagoPortapottyYou can’t compare marathons without mentioning access to port-a-potties at the start!

In New York the majority of the port-a-potties are in the Open Zone along New York Avenue. The line ups are shorter further away from the shuttle drop off. There are additional port-a-potties in each of orange, green, and blue zones. There are port-a-potties in each of the corrals as well.

In Chicago The start area is split in two by the corrals. I found the lines for the port-a-potties shorter on the city side of Grant Park than the lake side of Grant Park. The lines at their worst were maybe 10-15 minutes long. Which is why there is NO EXCUSE for the dudes who were peeing beside the fence in the start corrals!  Witnessed by at least two of my running friends. Seriously! I have no problems with guys running out to find a tree on races past wooded areas, but peeing on the discarded clothing in the corral is really gross. Not what I want to see when I am walking over to the fence to toss a shirt or stretch. Boston and New York both threaten disqualification if you are caught doing something like that (FYI I have yet to meet a runner who has witnessed the famous ‘yellow rain’ on the Verrazzano-Narrows bridge in New York).

SIDE NOTE: Best solution I saw for this was the Vancouver marathon that had a fenced off set of troughs for guys who needed a quick pee before the start. This saved them a long wait at the port-a-potty and shortened the line for us ladies.

Corrals

Both Chicago and New York divide up runners into waves, corrals, and colors. This helps spread out the runners and keep the start areas less crowded. Both Chicago and New York will check your bibs to make sure you are in the correct corral. Both races allow you to move to a slower corral but will not allow you to move to a faster corral.

New York has port-a-potties in the corrals which is nice. Chicago does not and as I mentioned above there were some people peeing beside the wire fences.  But aside from that both races had well organized corrals.

Race course

Hills

Below are the hill profiles for New York and Chicago. Note the difference between minimum and maximum elevation in each image.

New York

The big climbs in New York are about 20-40 meters in elevation. New York has three particularly tough climbs: the Queensboro bridge at km 25, the Willis bridge at km 33 and the climb to Central Park from km 37 to km 39. It also has rolling hills through Central Park and a steady climb in the last km to the finish. New York is considered a difficult marathon.

NYCHillProfile

Chicago

The big climbs in Chicago are less than 10 meters. My friend Christopher said Chicago is “waffle flat”. I think that’s a perfect description. It is flat, with little bumps here and there. There is one “big’ hill in the last half mile of the course, but that hill is about as hard as one of the rolling hills in Central Park, it just messes with your head because it is so close to the finish line.  Chicago is a much easier course in terms of hills. Chicago is a good course to try for a personal best.

ChicagoElevation

Crowds and Energy

racesignsNew York has an estimated 1,000,000+ spectators. The Chicago marathon press release estimates they have 1,700,000 spectators.  That number will of course vary depending on the year and on the weather. Both races have great crowd support. I loved the dancing rabbis in New York. I loved the dancing drag queens in Chicago. I had less than ideal spectator weather in both cities, but each only had short stretches with thin crowds except in locations where they cannot cheer such as the tunnel at the start of Chicago or on the Queensboro bridge in New York.

The years that I ran the race the crowds were louder in New York. There were a couple of “scream tunnels” in New York. A “scream tunnel” is a stretch where the crowds yell so loud you cannot hear your name if your best friend is yelling it at the top of their lungs. I did not encounter any sections that loud in Chicago. To be fair, that may be due to the width of the roads as much as to the size and volume of the crowds. Overall, I felt slightly more energy from the crowds in New York, but both races were amazing crowd support!

Running your own race

In 2017 there were 50,766 finishers in the New York City marathon. In 2018 44, 571 runners finished the Chicago marathon. At no point in either race are you going to be running alone.

In an attempt to keep runners moving smoothly, New York divides up the start into blue, orange, and green corrals. Each follows a slightly different path and is kept separate from the other colors for the first 8 miles.  But with 50,000+ runners that road is going to be crowded no matter what you do. I found the road more crowded with runners in New York vs Chicago. I tried to follow a pacer in New York and for some reason my pacer was two corrals back from where I was assigned based on my predicted (target) pace. As a result we had to zig zag and pass a LOT of slower runners which was stressful given the lack of space and took up a lot of extra energy. I didn’t really feel like I had space to run my own race until after 9 miles or so in New York.

In Chicago the roads are wider, they have a few less runners, and they also did crowd management asking the spectators to move back off the road and leave room for the runners. As a result I found I was able to settle into my own pace within the first mile and only got stuck behind other runners very occasionally. I caught up to the 3:55 pace group and ended up following them for about 5 miles without any difficulty and I managed to pass them without a lot of dodging around runners as well (often pacers have a clump of runners around them making it hard to pass). I found Chicago less stressful when trying to maintain my pace.

International spirit

World_map-3One of the things I love about Chicago and New York are the runners from around the world! Specatators from Mexico are among my favorites for their passion and cheering.

In 2018 Chicago had runners from 105 countries

In 2017 New York had runners from 139 countries

Spectator Experience

Getting around

Chicago has a fantastic spectator guide  you can pick up at the race expo

Elites at the race

20171103_153854Both New York and Chicago are likely to have presentations by well known runners on the main stage. Sponsors may have an autograph session with familiar names as well.  In Chicago 2018, Maui Jim sunglasses had Meb Keflezighi signing autographs at the expo and you could catch Meb, Joan Benoit Samuelsson and Paula Radcliffe on the main stage.

Prize money draws big names. Both Chicago and New York offer big prize money

The prize money is the same for the men and women.

Ranking New York Chicago
1st place $100,000 $100,000
2nd place $60,000 $75,000
3rd place $40,000 $50,000

There are also a variety of bonuses as well for running under a particular time, being fastest American, etc…

New York elites in 2018 include:

Athlete Gender Top Finishes
Geoffrey Kamworor Male 2017 NYC Winner
Shadrak Biwott Male 2018 Boston 3rd
Shura Kitata Male 2018 London 2nd
Daniel Wanjiru Male 2017 London winner
Lelisa Desisa Male 2x Boston winner
Mark Keitany Female 3x NYC winner
Vivian Cheruiyot Female 2018 London winner
Molly Huddle Female 2016 NYC Podium finish
Shalane Flanagan Female 2017 NYC winner
Des Linder Female 2018 Boston winner

Chicago Elite in 2018 included:

Athlete Gender Top Finishes
Galen Rupp Male 2017 Chicago winner
Mo Farah Male 4X Olympic Gold
Abel Kirui Male 2016 Chicago winner
Yuki Kawauchi Male 2018 Boston winner
Dickson Chumba Male 2015 Chicago winner
Brigid Kosgei Female 2017 Chicago 2nd
Birhane Dibaba Female 2018 Tokyo winner

It seems that despite the similar amounts of prize money, New York seems to attract a few more of the top elite. BUT! you are more likely to see a record setting run in Chicago

Four world records were set in Chicago

  • 2:08:05 Steve Jones 1984
  • 2:05:42 Khalid Khannouchi 1999
  • 2:18:47 Catherine Ndereba 2001
  • 2:17:18 Paula Radcliffe 2002

in 2018 Mo Farah set a new European record 2:05:11

Finish Area

finish-ponchosIn New York when you finish you have to sign up for the option of getting the blue poncho a month or so before the actual race. If you choose a blue poncho you get to exit the park at the close exit, but you cannot do bag check. There are a limited number of blue ponchos, so if you do not request it soon enough you will have to exit the park at the far exit regardless of whether or not you actually check a bag.

I did not have anyone meeting me at the finish line in New York, so I checked a bag. That meant I got the standard mylar blanket and had to walk to the far end of Central Park to pick up my gear and exit the park.  That was a long walk after running 26.2 miles and I felt every step, but bag pick up was quick and efficient when I got there. After bag pick up you still have a decent walk to get out of the park to meet friends and family. I was highly amused by the pedicabs offering to give tired runners a ride (for a fee of course :))

In Chicago the walk from the finish line to the exit is not short, but it is shorter than New York. Bag pick up was quick and efficient and it was only a short walk to meet friends and family (although there was a short set of stairs, I think I felt all 6 of them 🙂

Both races insist you keep moving after your cross the finish line. If you sit down, a medic will be by quickly to either take you to the med tent or get you moving again. When I sat down on the curb en route to bag check in New York, a medic came over to encourage me to get back on my feet and also offered to open my chocolate milk for me.

Both races had food and drink at the finish.  I got a kick out of the beer in souvenir beer cans in Chicago provided by Goose Island, though as drinks go I prefer a chocolate milk post-race 🙂 My only complaint about New York is that they give you an apple instead of a banana because of course New York is “the big apple”

Post-race atmosphere

ChicagoSpectatorWhen I hobbled into a restaurant in New York with my thermal blanket still wrapped around my shoulders the entire restaurant clapped and cheered. The next day lots of runners walk around with their medals and strangers congratulate you on the race. I regret taking an early flight out the next day as it would have been fun to soak of the post-race atmosphere and get my medal engraved.

The New York Times lists the names of the runners and their times in the Monday edition.

When I hobbled into a pub in Chicago with my thermal blanket, there was no cheering, but the staff took amazing care of me. In no time I had sugar, caffeine and salt in the form of a coke and some pretzel bites. When I asked for a couple of wet naps to wipe my face they even brought me a clean rag soaked in warm water. If you want cheering head to the Nike store post-race for the cheering staff on every floor as you proceed to the 4th floor for free medal engraving.  The next morning there was no shortage of runners walking around with their medals and/or race shirts. The local pancake house had quite the waiting list for breakfast but was worth the wait.

The Chicago Tribune lists the names of the runners and their times in the Monday edition.

Volunteers

Volunteers rock at both races. THANK YOU to all the volunteers at both races!

thank-you

Summary

New York is a tougher course than Chicago and the road felt more crowded, but I found the crowd and atmosphere had more energy. So if the cheering of the crowds is what keeps you going, I think you will prefer New York.

Chicago is a lower stress race. It’s easier to get to the start, you have a more room to run on the course, and I found the water stops had enough tables that I could get water and Gatorade quite easily. You are more likely to set a personal best in Chicago.

You may have a different experience from mine in New York or Chicago depending on your start wave and the weather.  But there is a reason these races are so popular. If you get a chance to run either race, do it!

If you are curious how these races compare to Boston, I have compared New York and Boston in another post   If you are interested, I also have other race reports and running related posts marathoncomic

NYC Marathon vs Boston Marathon Part 2 – which one is more awesome

My friend Christopher and I have had this conversation many times, because we never could agree: “Which is the ultimate US marathon experience Boston or New York?” In Part 1 I asked the question which is tougher now I ask the more controversial question which is more awesome!

IMG_20171105_084203SusanChristopherBoston

Who has the best crowd support?

By the numbers

According to the Boston Marathon media guide, the Boston marathon has an estimated 500,000 spectators and the New York marathon has an estimated 1,000,000+ spectators. So in terms of sheer numbers there is no question you have more people cheering you on in New York. Not surprising given New York has ten times the population of Boston. Also, in Boston, you run through the suburbs into Boston itself, whereas in New York you are running in the city for the entire race. Since you run through areas with a higher population it makes sense you would get bigger crowds.

By decibel level

decibel-meterThis is a tough one to call. The 2017 crowds in Boston seemed louder to me than the 2017 crowds in New York. But! I know the weather is a huge factor. The 2015 crowds in Boston were much quieter because it was cold and wet. Boston 2017 was a gorgeous sunny day, great for spectators (a little warm for runners) and I experienced Boston crowds at their ear drum splitting best! New York 2017 was cloudy with drizzle not as appealing to spectators (great for runners). From everything I have heard, New York on a sunny day is louder than my 2017 NYC experience and I have no doubt that is the case. 2017 NYC was louder than 2015 Boston, but, 2015 Boston was colder and wetter than 2017 New York.

At both the New York and Boston races there are parts of the course where the cheering is so loud that it is overwhelming.  At either race, if you put your name on your bib you may suddenly end up with a group of complete strangers chanting your name (which I think is awesome!). Though some runners will deliberately run in the middle of the road or cross to the side with less spectators because it can become quite intense, especially when you are struggling.

One of my favorite moments of the New York City marathon was the contrast between the Queensboro bridge and Queens (hope that’s the right borough). On the bridges you have no spectators, all you hear is the breathing and feet of the runners. But as you come off the bridge you can hear the crowds cheering in the distance ready to welcome you back to the streets.  Decibel levels peak around mile 8 when the three colour corrals merge, right after the Queensboro bridge and around and through Central Park.

In Boston, you may be in suburbia but they show up to cheer their runners! The loudest stretches are  Wellesley, Boston college. Wellesley college is at the top of the hill at around the half way mark, and you can hear them well before you reach the top. In the past few years Boston college has stepped up their game and dare I say it are in fact louder than Wellesley college. Of course the final stretches of Boston along the brownstones and along Boylston are also impressively loud.

By spirit

CheeringNew York city has a vibe, it’s New York! You run through the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens and Manhatten (twice). The vibe and crowds vary from borough to borough. You might hear rap, gospel singers, and my personal favorite the dancing rabbi. If you love New York City, you are going to love the New York marathon it’s that simple! Let’s be clear, I come from Ottawa, Canada where, let’s face it, the overwhelming majority of the population is white. It’s awesome to see such diversity in the crowds (and runners!).  If you look for it there is also a pride in the residents of each borough. One of my friends running crossed the Willis bridge and was greeted by a man on the sidewalk yelling “Welcome to the Bronx!” That’s just cool!

Boston has a very different vibe, partly due to the bombing in 2013. 2 bombs detonated 200 m apart on Boylston near the finish line killing 3 people and injuring hundreds of others.  The effect was an increase in popularity in the Boston marathon, as runners around the world wanted to show that one bomber could not scare everyone away and they would take back the race. The phrase “Boston strong” is seen on shirts and signs around race day. DaffodilsMy first Boston marathon was in 2015. It was rainy, windy and cold. A spectator on their lawn in the first few miles yelled out “Thank you for running!” my immediate response was “Thank you for cheering” I was getting a medal out of this and I was moving to stay warm, they were standing in the cold rain cheering on the back end of wave 3!  The majority of those injured in the bombing were spectators and year after year they return “Boston strong” to cheer us on. So seriously “Thank you for cheering!”.  Boston rallied the day of the bombing, there are so many stories of strangers helping each other after the bomb went off. They closed the course with runners still on the course, tired, cold, with no cell phone or way to reach their families at the finish line and the area with the bag check was locked down. Restaurants provided warm soup to runners stepping inside to get warm, strangers offered rides to help them reunite with their families. Chances are at some point during the race or before the race you are going to feel that spirit.

The crowds in Boston have energy as well. I didn’t see any dancing rabbis, but you do have the dancing Santa, the guys at the biker bar, the store with the mirrored windows so you can see yourself running, and the most famous spectators: the girls at Wellesley college with their signs offering up kisses (equal opportunity kisses, some have signs saying they will kiss girls).  For the record, I did not stop for a kiss in 2015, but in 2017 as I read all the different signs “Kiss me I’m Irish” “Kiss me it’s your last chance before I move to California” “Kiss me if you voted for Clinton”, “Kiss me and I will drop this sign” signs held up to suggest that perhaps the sign was all that stood between you and a naked woman (sorry guys, she was wearing a sundress) I decided it was part of the Boston experience and ran over for a kiss.  She was absolutely willing to give me a kiss on the lips, but I settled for a kiss on the cheek.

Taking over the city

Boston has a population of about 650,000 and gets around 20 million tourists a year. New York city has a population of 8.5 million and an estimated 60 million tourists a year.

As a result, even though 50,000 runners and their support family and friends descend on New York City, it is not as noticeable as 30,000 runners with their support teams in Boston. Boston also has the advantage that the race falls on Memorial Day long weekend. So everyone in Boston knows when it’s race weekend.

Boston rocks the pre-race

BostonJacketsWhen you arrive in the city, runners from previous years walk around wearing their Boston race jackets from past races. Let me tell you, I couldn’t wait to arrive at the 2017 Boston marathon because this time I had a 2015 race jacket to wear around town before race day.  It becomes a game to try and spot the oldest Boston jacket, or to find the oldest in the list of race years on embroidered on Boston jackets.

The Boston jackets also make it obvious to the locals who the runners are, so chances are when you go out for breakfast, lunch or supper, someone at the table will ask “Are you running Monday?” and wishes of good luck on race day.

The weather forecast talks about the weather on “Marathon Monday.” The local restaurants serve the special Edition Sam Adams Boston marathon beer. For 3 or 4 days, Bolyston is the center of all things Boston marathon. You can check out the expo and the run center with it’s 3D contour map of the course. Try to spot elite runners (saw Meb just casually walking down Boylston Sunday in 2016). Cheer on friends in the 5 km race, watch the college kids compete in the invitational 1 mile race. Wait your turn to take a picture at the finish line. Receive the blessing of the runners from the church on Boylston Sunday morning.  Anytime you want to feel like part of something special you just walk down Boylston and soak it all in.

Of course, there are reminders of the Boston bombing as well. Pots of daffodils line streets and store windows in memoriam. “Boston strong” is painted in store windows and appears on signs and posters. The lampposts where the bombs were set off are decorated with crochet blue and yellow daffodils. Police with rifles walk the streets, SWAT vans are parked on the corner. Police with dogs walk past. Spectators are reminded of the security procedures to watch the race on Boylston race day. But the overall impact of the bombing has really been “We are strong, we will not be intimidated, we will go on stronger than before… Boston strong!” It’s empowering.

After the race, the streets and restaurants are flooded with runners sporting their new Boston jackets. Those who have run Boston 5 or 6 times may arrive and say ‘this year I won’t buy a jacket’ but then you get to the expo, and discover oh this year’s jacket is reflective, or I like the colour this year, or you see your friend trying on a jacket and eventually your resolve weakens. Gotta have the jacket. It all adds to the spirit that is the Boston marathon! (Kudos to whatever marketing person came up with that idea, my sister now owns about 10 Boston jackets?)

New York rocks the post-race

SusanMimosaSince most of us follow the superstition or tradition of not wearing our race shirts until after the race, it’s difficult to spot the runners before the race in New York City. As a runner you can have playing spot the other runners based on the shoes, the conversations, the expo race bag slung over their shoulder. There’s comradery in hotel elevators as we glance at each other and tentatively ask “are you running?” The race expo and the finish line are located miles apart, so you have to make an effort to visit the finish line area. It’s totally worth the effort as you can walk down that finishing stretch lined with flags, visit the run center and see the winner’s medals, the giant race map, and whatever other fun experiences sponsors have cooked up to get you in the mood!

But it’s after the race when New York truly embraces the runners. We walked into a Bierhaus for a post-race dinner and the restaurant patrons burst into applause at the sight of the famous blue poncho on Christopher and in my case the good old mylar blanket ( I chose bag check). Any time a runner came into the restaurant we all cheered and clapped as we stumbled to a table and collapsed into a chair.

It’s tradition to wear your medal the day after the race. I am perfectly willing to walk around wearing a race medal! Concierges, taxi drivers, strangers on the street all smile and say Congratulations!  We made our way to a news stand to buy the New York Times which has a special marathon section where they print the names and times of the first 35000 runners (what an awesome souvenir!) The man at the newsstand gestured to Christopher’s medal and said “Can I touch it?” Smiling, Christopher passed it to him, and he lifted and caressed the medal with a big smile and a heartfelt congratulations.

Marathon Monday is a thing in New York, with a whole series of celebrations and activities the day after the marathon! Free medal engraving? Maybe it’s because the race in Boston is on the Monday of a holiday weekend, but in Boston the day after the race all we are thinking about is how soon we can get on the road and head home. I had no idea that in New York, I should have booked a later flight so I could take part in the post-race celebrations and atmosphere of Marathon Monday!

What moments impact you as a runner

Boston is about getting to the start line!

BostonAcceptanceAside from the charity entries at Boston, everyone in the race has already completed a marathon, most of them have completed several.  They know they can do it! Some of them have trained for years to earn a BQ. A task that has become more and more challenging since the year of the bombing.

There was a time you could run a BQ in March and register for the Boston marathon one month later. In fact, there was a time when runners could take advantage of the rounding down rule (if you ran a 3:55:06 that counted as a 3:55 BQ). In the past 5 years, too many runners with qualifying times have registered and as a result Boston has had to calculate a cut-off time to keep the number of runners down to 30,000.

Registration dates vary based on your qualifying time. Someone who has a time 20 minutes faster than the BQ requirement registers a week before someone like me who qualifies with a time within 5 minutes of your BQ. It’s stressful for those of us in the sub 5 group. You wait for the inevitable email informing you they have too many runners with qualifying times and then you wait. About a week later you receive an email telling you this years cutoff time and whether or not you made the cut. There is some luck involved here. My 2015 qualifying time would not have earned me a spot in 2016, and my 2017 qualifying time would not have earned me a spot in 2018. Those of us on the cusp may have to wait months and months after our qualifying race to find out if our BQ is in fact good enough to get us to the start line.

2018 Cutoff 3:23

2017 Cutoff 2:09

2016 cutoff 2:28

2015 cutoff 1:02

2014 cutoff 1:38

Even charity runners work harder to get to Boston as the fundraising targets are $5000 USD vs $2500-$3000 for New York.

As a result, the celebrations at Boston happen at the start line. Congratulations you are running Boston! Conversations in the start village are along the lines of “Is this your first Boston?”, “What was your qualifying race?” we don’t even need to ask what their qualifying time was because if they are in your corral, they qualified with the same time you did! We assume the runners around us are experienced marathon runners and we are all sharing the joy of being at the start line in Hopkington.

Inevitably there will be someone who earned their first Boston Bib and got an injury. Someone will be lined up with crutches or a cast. They know they probably won’t finish but damn it they finally got a bib and they are absolutely going to cross that start line!  There are a lot of smiles at that start line!

New York is about getting to the finish line

SusanFinishThe most awesome thing about the NYC marathon is it does NOT require a qualifying time. Most runners get in by volunteering, running multiple New York races, or by lottery.  That means in addition to experience runners chasing a personal best, there are lots of first time marathon runners on the course.

In the start corral I was surprised to discover how many people had never run a marathon before. But wow, what a place to run your first marathon! My only comment might be, if you think you will run multiple marathons and you run New York for your first, the New York marathon will make just about any other marathon pale in comparison!

Because there are so many first time, or relatively new marathon runners, there are some great traditions and celebrations of the later runners crossing the finish line. Some elite runners come back to cheer on the stragglers. How awesome is that!  I truly believe those are the people who deserve the biggest cheers. Sure I was tired at the end, but I knew I could do it. These people didn’t even know if they could finish. While I was sitting down at a restaurant ordering food and a drink, they were still out there in the dark making their way to the finish line! Which of us had the greater achievement that day?

Run! Cours! Correre! 実行

Both New York and Boston attract runners from all over the world: Poland, Vietnam, Chile, France, Ireland, Italy, Germany, Japan, New Zealand. Spectators shout out viva Brazil and wave the Brazilian flag as a runner goes past in green and yellow!  At the 2017 NYC marathon 139 countries were represented. At the 2017 Boston marathon 96 countries were represented.

I think that international race spirit is a little stronger in New York. That’s likely because New York encourages international runners by reserving a certain number of lottery spots for international runners. That way, if a group of runners in Ireland decide they should all go run the New York marathon, there is a decent chance several of them will get in through the lottery and they can make the trip together. If someone doesn’t get in through the lottery they can buy their way in through a tour package (that’s how I made it to New York) or by fundraising. You see groups of runners with custom NYC <insert country here> jackets walking down the street!

In Boston there is no lottery, getting an entry is determined by your qualifying time so the race has no control over how many international runners compete.  It’s a testament to the popularity of the race that they have 96 different countries represented!

Getting to the start

LadyLibertyBoston and NYC are both point to point races, so you have to get to the start line. Boston provides school buses from Boston Commons. They have an efficient system for loading the buses. When you can board the bus is based on your start wave. One advantage to being in Wave 3 is I get to sleep in later than all those folks in Wave 1 and Wave 2 😊. You board the bus and try not to think about the fact that as the bus trundles along to Hopkington that you have to run all the way back.

There are specific locations in NYC where you can take buses to the start. You have to select ahead of time whether you will take the bus or the ferry. My friends all took the bus. There was a big line to board the buses, but once you were on board it was easy, and some of the buses even had bathrooms on the bus! Bonus! My friend Christopher said I should take the ferry. I have to say, I am glad I did. It is more hassle because you have to get on the ferry and then line up for buses on the other end. But standing on the ferry with the Statue of Liberty on your right and the Verrazano bridge on your left is an amazing way to get in the mood for the race!  Even if the total time and effort to reach the start was longer, and even though the bus loading system was disorganized and chaotic when we got off the ferry (I am told it was better in 2016, hopefully they fix it next year) I would take the ferry again just for that view.

The start village

Ahhh the joys of the marathons. You get up at 4 or 5 AM and when you finally reach the start you have 1 to 2 hours before you actually start!

The important stuff: Port-a-Potties!

Both races have lots and lots of port-a-potties. Both races have long lines for the port-a-potties. Both races have port-a-potties in the village and either in the corrals (NYC) or on the walk to the corrals (Boston). Tip: If you are in a back corral of a wave, the port-a-potties en route to the corrals usually have nice short lines and you still have time to get to your corral before you start 😊.  New York is famous for “yellow rain”: Runners on the upper level of the Verrazano peeing off the side creating yellow rain for the runners on the lower level of the bridge. I didn’t see anyone doing that in 2017, and I have yet to meet a runner from the upper or lower level who actually witnessed the creation of, or fall of, yellow rain. On the other hand, the aerial view of the first half mile of Boston must be hilarious as waves of men peel off into the conveniently located patch of trees right after the start line to take advantage of nature’s washroom.  Both races threaten to disqualify you if you do that in the village!

What can I do while I wait for my start wave?

StartVillageBoston has several big tents set up which is great to protect you from the sun or rain. If you are in Wave 3 (like me), when you arrive the tents are packed! But once the Wave 1 runners head out you can usually move in and find space (you might even find a few blankets to sit on left behind by earlier runners).

In Boston everyone just hangs out in one big field. In New York there are different villages for different colour bibs. If you are running with a friend you can still hang out together in the common areas OR the friend with the faster bib can go to the slower colour village, but the slower colour bibs cannot enter the faster colour corrals.  i.e. Blue bibs can go anywhere, Orange bibs cannot get into Blue, but can enter green, Green bibs can only enter the green village. The advantage to this system is it spreads everyone out a bit, the disadvantage is the start villages are more confusing to navigate.IMG_20171105_084130

You can find the usual pre-race food/gels and water at both races. But New York does have a couple of cool bonuses: In each village they have therapy dogs & Dunkin Donut hats (while supplies last). If you have bag check, pick up the hat before you check your bag OR bring a safety pin to attach the hat to your race belt for the run. Another nice touch in New York was the hay laid down on some of the grassy areas which made for some nice spots to sit or lie down.

Bag Check & ponchos

Both races will only accept official provided with bib pick up transparent bags for bag check

Bag Check at New York is in the start village, so you have the option of bringing a few extra things with you to the start and checking them after you get there.  This meant I was able to bring my phone and take pictures in the start village and then check the phone with my bag. It also meant I was able to throw some optional race gear in the bag to use or not use depending on weather conditions and just check what I did not use.  You do have to check your bag well before your start time! Make sure you look up the deadline for bag check drop off! My wave started at 10:15 but my bag check cut off was 8:40! You may need to get an earlier bus or ferry to the start if you are checking a bag.

Boston you have to check the bag before you board the buses to the start (pre 2017 the bag check was in Boston Commons, in 2017 they moved it to Boylston). This could be a big hassle if you are not staying near Boylston.

In New York you have to choose between bag check and the famous blue ponchos.  The blue ponchos are thicker and warmer than the mylar blankets given to all the finishers. Keep an eye out for the volunteers with tape to hold your poncho closed for you😊. Runners with blue ponchos also have a shorter walk to the park exit. Yes, that’s right whether you choose bag check or poncho determines where you exit Central park. My bag check was almost a half mile from the finish line and I felt every single step. When I finally got my bag and walked out of the park I then had to walk back towards the start to get to a metro station.

In Boston everyone gets the thick Poncho. On a cold day there were also volunteers ensuring the Velcro was well closed to keep you warm. In 2017 they moved the bag check to Boylston so it is a much shorter walk than it was in the past.

Apples vs Bananas

You’ve seen the sign held up by someone in the crowd “This is an awful lot of work for a free banana!”. Well of course there are bananas at the finish in Boston, but not in New York. Nope, in New York you get an apple, because of course you are in the big apple! Clever, but I wanted my banana. There I said it done, with my rant now 😉

Hey Susan, it’s a race, which is the better race purely from the running perspective?

If you are out for a personal best, neither course will give that up easily. Both courses have some tough climbs.  Check out Part 1 of this blog: which is tougher if you want the nitty gritty details!

The NYC marathon has pacers. Boston does not.

Boston corrals are much more tightly assigned since almost everyone entered had to provide proof of a qualifying time. As a result when you start everyone around you is running a similar pace. In New York you just type in your predicted finish time when you register. Inexperience marathon runners may not know what is realistic.  Both myself and the other runners from my running club found that our corrals were much slower pace than we expected given our predicted finish times. As a result if you wanted to finish at your predicted time you spent a lot energy dodging and passing runners.  The NYC marathon also has more runners which makes for a more crowded course. So, if you are trying to set an aggressive time goal, it’s going to be tougher to achieve in New York.

Of course, if your goal is to be surrounded by other runners and just enjoy the race and atmosphere, New York is going to be a blast! It just depends what you are looking for on race day.

In Boston, I felt like a back of the pack runner. In New York I felt like I was one of the fast runners.

For perspective here are my personal stats for the two races

Boston 2017 New York 2017
Wave 3 (out of 4) 2 (out of 4)
Corral 7 (out of 8) Blue F (6th of 18 corrals)
Finish position 17802 9711
Finish % Top 60% Top 20%
Finish time 4:07:11 (I was running Big Sur in 2 weeks so I did not push it) 3:49:17 (I was trying for and achieved a Personal best)

 

By the numbers

A few stats comparing the two races

Boston 2017 New York 2017
Number started 27222 51307
Number finished 26400 50766
% Finished 97.0 % 98.9 %
Number Men 14842 29678
Number Women 12380 21088
% Women 45.5 % 41.1 %
Number of countries 92 139
Course record Men 2:03:02 set in 2011 2:05:06 set in 2011
Course record Women 2:19:59 set in 2014 2:22:31 set in 2003

 

The volunteers

The volunteers are awesome at Boston and New York and we couldn’t do it without them. Thank you to each and every person who comes out to volunteer!

Thankyou

So which is more awesome?

As long as I have known Christopher, he has loved New York city. From the moment he started running marathons he wanted to run the NYC marathon. When he finally got to run it for the first time in 2016, he couldn’t stop talking about it!  What an experience it was, the crowds, the atmosphere, the different boroughs, the QFB (Queensboro “expletive deleted” bridge 😊). I can’t imagine any other race taking first place in his heart!  I also expect that all those runners who did New York for their first marathon or did New York as their first major marathon will never have another race experience as powerful.

MomAndSusanJacketsWhen I was a teenager my dad ran a Boston qualifier, but never got to run Boston. Years later, my sister qualified for and ran Boston.  When my mom turned 65 she qualified for and ran her first Boston. So, you can imagine, from the first time I ran a marathon, Boston was on my mind. In 2015 I qualified for and ran the Boston marathon. I drove down with my sister who was running her 11th consecutive Boston, and our other sister came down with her husband to cheer us on (my mom and dad were of course tracking us online!) It was awesome to share that experience with my family and it was a special moment to pose in my Boston jacket with my sister and my mom.  As a result, for me, no race could ever replace Boston.

So the answer is: It depends.

Yes I know that sounds like a cop out, but it’s true. Each of us has our own reasons for running a marathon. Each of us has different goals and motivations. I don’t know which of these two races will claim your heart but I can promise you that if you get the chance to run either one you should take it! Regardless of which you run it will be an experience you will never forget!

Here the rest of my running related posts and race reports.

 

New York Marathon Race Report

NYRRI want to be a part of it New York New York! Many a marathon runner dreams of running the New York Marathon. This year it was my turn, in this post I’ll share my experience running the 2017 NYC Marathon.

I blame two people for getting me into marathons: my sister, Judy Andrew-Piel, and my friend, Christopher Harrison. I think of the Boston marathon as my sister’s race and it was just amazing to run the 2015 and 2017 Boston marathons with her. NYC is Christopher’s race, so racing it with him was inevitable and a treat.

Getting a bib
RegisterForNYC

There are several ways to get a bib to the New York marathon: lottery, qualifying time, fundraise, run 9 + volunteer at 1 NYRR race, or pay for a tour package. Of the 50,000 runners this year only 867 were from Canada, so odds of getting in through the lottery for Canadians seem pretty low ( I did try) . I am not fast enough to qualify, the 9+1 system is great for the locals, raising $3000 for charity is a great idea but they are US charities so tougher to raise for outside the US because your friends can’t easily claim tax deductions. So I coughed up the money for a tour package through the running room that included hotel + guaranteed race entry.  It works out to paying about $600-$1000 CDN more than if you got in through the lottery. 

The Race Expo

Christopher and I arrived Thursday night so we could do the race expo and any bits of shopping for race supplies Friday, leaving Saturday to rest. According to my GPS we logged 22341 steps Friday, so I am really glad we did! The expo opened at 10 AM, we arrived around 10:20 and there was a huge line to enter, but it moved quickly and it wasn’t long until we split up for bib pickup. In a moment of serendipity I met 3 otshirtf the 4 runners from my running club, K2J while standing in line for my bib!

Before picking up my shirt and gear check bag, I took advantage of the t-shirt sizing area to try on a sample shirt and figure out what size fit.

Next up was the NYC marathon shop, they had some really nice gear: jackets and shirts of various shapes, sizes and colors, backpacks, gloves, wine glasses, stuffed bears, tights, shorts, visors, hats, a dangerous yet awesome place to shop 😊 I immediately picked out a nice long sleeve shirt, a t shirt, and a new visor thinking those would make perfect souvenirs, but couldn’t resist a nice warm hoodie and a pair of running gloves as well.  To make myself feel better at the checkout I asked the volunteer what the largest bill was he’d tallied that day.  Knowing someone else had splurged $2500 made my purchases seem downright modest!

20171103_184719Having been to race expos before, I know they can be a little chaotic, so this time I had an actual to-do list for the expo. First up- pace bands! I grabbed a 3:50 and a 3:55 pace band and took a picture of the sign listing the corrals where each pacer would be on race day. I was quite surprised to see that the pacer for a 3:50 was 6 corrals back from my assigned corral. Maybe they do that deliberately, since you can move back corrals but you can’t move up. 

Next up was a pair of recovery sandals. If you aren’t familiar with these, you want to be! My sister got a demo pair at work and decided to try them after Boston. Since then, she is frequently seen sporting them post-race or just post-workout. Oofos didn’t have a booth, but Jackrabbit sports carries the brand, and sure enough their booth at the expo had the recovery sandals, as an added bonus they had NYC marathon branding.  They cost $50 and they look like they should cost $5. (Spoiler alert, they were worth it!).  Finally we went in search of name bars to wear so the crowds could cheer us by name, but sadly the charity booth that offered that service last year was either not there, or was not offering the same service this year.  A trip to Staples for some sharpies and stickers would have to do.

Christopher eyed the recovery sandals, but balked at the price. When we walked out of the expo I st20171103_111829opped to put on the sandals since my feet were already sore from the expo. The look of relief on my face when I slipped them on must have made an impression because Christopher asked to try one on and you guessed it, we had to go back into the expo and buy a pair for him too 😉

The race expo was busy but it was still easy to walk around, we checked out Pepper the bot with her bib, we posed for pictures at various booths and signs, we added Thank you notes to the wall, we reviewed the map and hill profiles. All in all a great race expo and a great way to get stoked for the race. Oh and in case you are wondering, yes they had gels (sorry inside joke for the K2j Runners who did the Petit Train du Nord marathon).

Scoping out the finish20171103_150140

I find it really helpful to walk the last mile of the marathon. We hopped on the metro and made our way to Central Park. We walked along South Central Park and then we rented bikes so we could ride the surprisingly long (and hilly) stretch of the course through Central Park itself. Renting bikes seemed like a good idea, but when we rode out along the race route and back again we discovered the bike path in central park is one way. So yes we were *those* people riding the wrong way through Central Park. Sorry!

When we walk20171103_153854ed to the finish line we had an extra treat. Meb was there with his daughter and fundraising team. They were taking some pictures for his charity. But Meb being the amazing ambassador for the sport that he is, posed for individual pictures with every member of his team and then turned and said we’ll take pictures with that group there and then we are done. “that group there” included Christopher and I, in fact we were the last runners to get a pic with Meb, who was clearly exhausted and tired of taking pictures, but always the trooper took the time so we could get a picture with him and his daughter!  Love Meb!

Pre-race dinner

SmoresThe rest of Friday and Saturday were spent drinking water with Nuun, eating pasta and rice, and generally trying to stay off our feet as much as possible. For a pre-race dinner we made 5 PM reservations at a Gyu-Kazu restaurant.  Kanako, one of my K2J trainin partners, came to join us for BBQ, rice and Smores! As an added bonus it turns there were happy hour prices until 6 PM, so we had a great meal and Christopher indulged in some superior sake at a bargain price!  Kanako works at the Japanese embassy in Canada and informed us that particular sake was given to prime minister Trudeau as a gift by the Japanese prime minister. At $35 a bottle (half price happy hour!) Christopher could not resist, but limited his intake given it was the night before the race so his brother Abram had to step up and make sure it did not go to waste 😉. 

Getting to the race village

LadyLibertyWe got to the ferry terminal just before 6:30 AM and it was packed with runners in various pre-race get-ups.  My favorite was the runner in the polka dot onesie and penguin hat. Christopher and I got a lot of compliments on our pre-race bathrobes.  It was crowded but it wasn’t long until we were on the ferry.  All the seats indoors were taken, so we went to the far side of the boat and outside where we had a fabulous view of the Statue of Liberty and the Verrazano bridge. What could be more inspiring pre-race!

We were chugging along and suddenly they shut down the boat engines. Apparently, they were only operating one dock on Staten Island so we had to wait 15 minutes or so until another ferry vacated our dock and we could move in. The cut off for my bag check was 8:40, so I was a little nervous, but we figured the delay in docking would just reduce the line for the buses at the other end.

BuslinesIf it did reduce the line-ups I’d hate to think what they were like before! Once we disembarked it was ordered chaos. There was something resembling a line but it was a bit of a free for all with people lined up about 15 across, dividing and merging around various obstacles until we were funneled into a covered line about 4 people wide. After that things moved along fairly well, but it must have been 30+ minutes before we finally boarded a bus. The bus ride itself probably took another 20 to 30 minutes. Security checks were quick and efficient, it was the transportation and the waiting for transportation that took so much time.  I would take the ferry again, but I would give myself 2 and a half hours to get there from the ferry terminal in Manhattan.

The hunt for the Dunkin Donut hats!

IMG_20171105_084203When you enter the start village you see a number of people walking around in pink and orange hats. These are the Dunkin Donut hats and they are clearly a “thing” at the New York marathon because “America runs on Dunkin Donuts.” We entered the village at 8:25 AM, 2 hours after we had arrived at the ferry terminal. But, just enough time to seek out the famous Dunkin Donut hats before checking my bag. We asked a volunteer who directed us to the Orange Village, but when we found the Dunkin Donuts trucks we were informed they had run out. They suggested we check the blue and green villages.  By the time we walked back to the blue village it was 8:36 so I had to check my bag to make the 8:40 cut-off. We continued into the village and located not only the hats, but also Kanako, who had been visiting the therapy dogs! Fortunately I was able to repurpose a safety pin to attach the hat to my belt (Sorry James, since I had already completed bag check, I couldn’t grab an extra hat for you) 

Start corrals

I have a tendency to start too fast. So I decided to follow a pacer to help me hold back. I was assigned to Blue Wave 2 Corral F but I moved back to Orange Wave 2 Corral F, home of the 3:50 pacer.  Moving to the orange corral worked out well. Christopher’s cousin Miriam was in the orange village preparing for her first marathon! (She did it, way to go Miriam!) We made our way there after the mandatory stop at a port-a-potty (NOTE: The port-a-potty lines were quite reasonable, there are also port-a-potties in the corrals themselves but they seemed to have longer lines). We had a few minutes to catch up with Miriam, including a bit of a scare when the cannon for the elite start went off. Given events at Boston in 2013 and an incident with a terrorist in Manhattan 5 days before the race, loud bangs bring to mind the worst fears. Fortunately, this time it was just the start cannon. No sooner had we sat down to chat when my pacer walked by holding her sign. It was time to head to my corral. Very different from all my past marathon starts, I never really had a chance to sit down and hang out before heading to my corral. I underestimated the time to get to the start village. I did have one nice bonus when Diane from K2J found me in the corral (congrats on the BQ Diane!)

The pacers

Did I mention I decided to follow a pacer so I wouldn’t go out too fast?  Boy did that plan backfire! We walked to the start line and then she took off! 

When we hit the half-way mark of the race we were 4 minutes ahead of the time on my pace band indicated for a 3:50 marathon. (Side note, do they make large print pace bands? I discovered on this race that my arms are too short, apparently, I need reading glasses to read the pace band 😊). I held on and thought perhaps she was just trying to gain us time before the Queensboro bridge climb. But she had a shoe problem just before the bridge so we all ended up running that at our own pace. To her credit she caught back up to us about 2 miles later and for the second half of the race at least we were not g! I decided to make it a game, how long could I hold onto her. I’ll let you guess from my split times below when I let her go and decided to treat myself to walking the water stops.

Split 3:50 split time My split time
5 km 27:15 26:17 (-0:58)
10 km 54:30 52:09 (-2:21)
15 km 1:21:06 1:18:27 (-2:39)
20 km 1:49:00 1:45:11 (-3:49)
25 km 2:16:15 2:12:38 (-3:37)
30 km 2:43:30 2:39:22 (-4:08)
35 km 3:10:45 3:07:21 (-3:24)
40 km 3:38:00 3:36:42 (-1:18)
42.2 km 3:50:00 3:49:19 (-0:41)

I don’t think I would try to follow a pacer again at a big race. You spend too much time trying to figure out where your pacer is and not enough time soaking up the atmosphere. Why they put the pacer that far back in the corrals is beyond me. We were running faster than all the runners around us for the first half of the marathon. I expended way too much energy zig zagging around runners trying not to lose her as she set the pace. Also when you follow a pacer, you follow their race plan not yours. My strategy would not have been to bank 4 minutes in the first half. To put that in perspective we were on pace for a 3:42 at the half way point. But hey, I did get my sub 3:50, and I do appreciate the volunteers who pace! Thank you!

The race course

There are three colored corrals to split up the runners at NYC: blue, orange, and green in order of speed. The blue and orange corrals go on the top level of the Verrazano bridge. The green corral runs on the lower level. I was assigned to the blue corral but moved back to orange (allowed because that is a slowed corral) to be with the 3:50 pacer (more on that later). I have to say running over the Verrazano bridge is awesome. Yes it’s a hill, but you are too stoked to really notice. 

As soon as you step off the bridge you are treated to the famous New York marathon crowds. These crowds will stick with you through the entire race (except for the bridges). The weather was cloudy and a slight mist so the crowds may have been a touch lighter than usual. New York typically has over a million spectators lining the course!  The crowds peaked at mile 8, after the Queensboro bridge, and around Central Park. I managed to find Christopher’s brother Abram and his girlfriend Julia at Mile 8 and I heard Vincent from K2J call out my name on South Central Park. Always a treat to see a familiar face during the race!

I knew that the second half of the marathon held some good hills.  I actually felt pretty good going over Hill #1: the Queensboro bridge. It’s a fairly long climb, and the quiet after 15 miles of crowds cheering you is quite the contrast. For the first couple of hundred meters you aren’t even over the river and because you are on the lower level, it’s hard to see the top of the hill. Christopher told me the trick: there is an island in the middle of the river, when you are over that island you have reached the top.  Half way down the other side you can hear the crowds waiting for you on the other side.

I found hill # 2, the Willis bridge,  a little tougher,. It’s shorter and steeper than Queensboro but still a good climb. When I reached it, my brain was focused on getting into the Bronx and making the U-turn to head South back towards Central Park and I really wasn’t in the headspace for that hill. Hill # 3 is the climb to Central park. We did the bike ride through Central park Friday in our course preview, but, I had not appreciated the long climb to reach Central Park! (PS there is a small park about 1 km before Central park designed to trick you into thinking you are in Central Park (thanks for the heads up on that Christopher, I was ready for it) It was only on the final climbs along South Central Park and up to the finish line that I felt the twinges and pulses of various leg cramps threatening to stop me, but I was able to breathe through it and get to the finish line. There was no finishing sprint or leap for the cameras, but I finished intact if exhausted.

SusanFinish

Exiting Central Park

Okay seriously whose idea was it to put the bag check that far away from the finish line? It was 800 meters from the finish to the bag check and most of that was uphill! I sat down on the curb for a break and a stream of medical team volunteers came over to see if I needed help (one of them was kind enough to crack open my Gatorade and water bottle for me). I knew if i stayed any longer they would drag me off to the med tent, so I got up and kept walking. I stopped at another curb further up, and once again was decended upon by concerned medical volunteers who encouraged me to keep moving to avoid cramps. Finally I made it to the bag check and once I got past the last UPS bag check van I was able to sit down uninterrupted. I put on some dry clothes, I got out my phone and looked up my official finish time, I took the photo you see above, I put on my cushy recovery sandals. But eventually I knew I needed to walk again. 

ParkExitThey have a timing mat to let friends and family tracking you from the NYC marathon mobile app know when you exit the park. A brilliant idea because it took me 50 minutes after crossing the finish line to actually exit and make my way to the area where you could meet friends and family.

My feet, legs and back were sore, I had some serious chafing issues, but I was done. I was happy (okay I was hiccupping and hyperventaling when I first crossed the finish line as I tried to keep myself from crying as I walked to the bag check from exhaustion, but yes I was happy) . This is the point where all the friends who don’t run marathons and read this report ask “why would you do that to yourself” . To them I say, go watch a movie like Spirit of the Marathon, or watch the Barkley on Netflix, then the marathoners will only seem a little crazy.  Oh one last note, after I exited Central Park up by 88th street I had to walk all the way back to 72nd street to meet up with Christopher and his brother. I was amused by all the pedicab drivers offering to give me a ride. But at $3 a minute and now wearing my recovery sandals and some warm clothing I chose to stumble along on my own.

Post-Race celebrations

At some point your body realizes you need food! We ate dinner at a german Bierhaus and the whole restaurant cheered when we came in with our thermal blankets and race medals. it was awesome! We returned the favour and joined the cheering when any other runners entered throughout the evening. One of the runner’s girlfriends got all of us together for a group photo at the restaurant. I would love to see a video of each of us struggling to get out of our seat and walking very slowly to their table for the photo.  A nice salty pretzel and some bubbles in the form of Prosecco , and a little ibuprofen, and I was feeling much better!

The next day I met up with Christopher for breakfast. Wearing our race shirts and medals of course! En route to the restaurant we stopped at a news stand to pick up a copy of the New York Times. The top 30,000 runners finish times are published in the marathon section the day after the race. The man selling the news papers asked Christopher if he could hold the medal. He caressed the medal and congratulated us both. Concierge, waiters, and random strangers congratulated us as we made our way to French toast with strawberries and a mimosa. Given the challenges of getting a bib and the sheer number of other marathons out there to try, I don’t know if I will run this again. But, I think this old commercial sums up the NYC marathon for many of us.  I Love New York

SusanMimosa

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Boston Marathon vs New York Marathon Part 1 which is tougher?

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NYCvsBostonMy friend Christopher and I have had this conversation many times, and it occasionally gets quite heated 🙂 Which is the ultimate US marathon experience Boston or New York? (for those of you who scream neither! Hey perks of blogging, feel free to counter with your own post :)) This year I ran both, so I wanted to take a moment to compare the two and perhaps settle this matter once and for all (if that’s possible). In Part 1 I start by trying to figure out which course is tougher. (if you want to know which is the ultimate race experience check out part 2)

Let’s talk hills…

If I look at the hill profile for each race from my Strava account, it’s very interesting to compare the two races.

New York

NYCHillProfile

Boston
Screenshot_20170430-162846

New York has a higher overall elevation gain: 305 meters vs Boston 166 meters.

Each race has very little that you would truly call flat. You have rolling hills of various difficulty through most of the race.

Each race has three nasty hills in the second half of the race:

  • Boston has the famous Newton hills, 3 solid climbs back to back that start at km 28 (mile 17.5) and end at km 34 (mile 21).
  • New York has the Queensboro bridge at km 25, the Willis bridge at km 33 and the climb to Central Park from km 37 to km 39.

Many runners point out that Boston is a net downhill course, and therefore easier, but I’d like to point out that many first time Boston runners actually regret not training for the downhill. There is a little dip under an overpass just before you reach Beacon street which is a short steep downhill that draws many an expletive from the lips of the runners. Because the Newton hills are so close together many runners either tighten up on the uphill and cannot loosen up and find a downhill stride again, or they run the early downhills in Boston too hard and pay for it later.  Of course, many first time New York runners will tell you the biggest mistake they made was going to fast down the Verrazano bridge at the start and in so doing wrecked their quads and were unable to leverage the downhills later in the race.

What about the weather…

let’s compare the two year over year

YEAR Boston weather Boston Wind NYC weather New York Wind
2008 53-53F Clear W 2 MPH (tailwind) 44-50F Overcast NE 13 MPH (headwind)
2009 47F-51F Parly Cloudy ESE 9-16 MPH (slight headwind) 53-59F Overcast N 14 MPH (slight headwind)
2010 49-55F Partly Cloudy ENE 2-5 MPH (headwind) 46-51F Scattered clouds WNW 12 MPH (slight tailwind)
2011 46-55F Cloudy WSW 16-20 MPH (tailwind) 51-54F Cloudy SW 9 MPH (tailwind)
2012 65-87F Clear WSW 10-12 MPH (tailwind) Cancelled
2013 54-56F Clear E 3MPH (headwind) 51-53F Cloudy N 17 MPH (Slight headwind)
2014 61-62F Clear WSW 2-3 MPH (tailwind) 45-48F Cloudy N 18 MPH (slight headwind)
2015 46-46F Overcast and rain Calm 59-64F Cloudy S 6 MPH (slight tailwind)
2016 61-71F Clear WSW 2-3 MPH (tailwind) 57-59F Scattered clouds NW 15 MPH (slight tailwind)
2017 70-73F Clear WSW 1-3 MPH (tailwind) 55-62F Cloudy ESE 3 MPH (slight headwind)
2018 35-50F Rain NE 14 MPH (headwind) 48-52F Sunny N 4 MPH (slight headwind)

New York has more consistent good race temperatures than Boston year over year.  Boston has a few years where extreme weather would affect your race.

The wind is an interesting factor. Boston is a point to point race that goes pretty much the same direction the entire race, so a tailwind or a headwind can affect the entire race.  Most years the winds in Boston seem fairly negligeable, with only 3 of the last 10 races reaching winds over 5 MPH. Two of those years were tailwinds, one was a headwind. In New York you go North for two thirds of the course and then turn South for the last third of the race. Conditions in New York have generally been noticeably windier than Boston, but the wind switches between headwind and tailwind (in the table above I indicated headwind if it was a headwind for the longer portion of the course).

Out of curiosity I did a little research on the affect of winds on a runner.

“All else being equal, the drag on a runner created by air resistance varies according to the square of the runner’s velocity through the air. That means that the performance hit from a 10 mph headwind is four times greater than that from a 5 mph wind.

A tailwind helps runners, but not quite as much as a headwind hurts them. One estimate says that, when running at a six minute-per-mile pace, a 10 mph tailwind would increase one’s performance by about 6 seconds per mile, while the equivalent headwind (six-minute miles into a 10 mph wind) slows one down by about 12 seconds per mile. That’s a possible swing of almost eight minutes over the course of a marathon.”

All in all it looks like you have better odds of cooler temperatures in New York, but you are less likely to be battling a headwind in Boston.

Which race posts faster times…

We can’t compare average finish times for the everyday runner because the average runner entering Boston has a faster pace than the average runner entering New York. So the best we can do is to compare the times set by the elite runners.

Men’s Race

The Boston Course record of 2:03:02 was set in 2011 by Geoffrey Mutai when it was 46-55F cloudy with a 16-20 Tailwind (near ideal race conditions!)

The New York Course record of 2:05:06 was also set in 2011 by Geoffrey Mutai when it was 51-54F cloudy with a 9 MPH tailwind for the first two thirds of the race (wow he was having an amazing year!)

 

Year Boston Winner Time New York Winner Time Difference Fastest race
2008 Robert Kipkoech Cheruiyot 2:07:45 Marílson Gomes dos Santos 2:08:43 0:58 Boston
2009 Deriba Merga 2:08:42 Meb Keflezighi 2:09:15 0:33 Boston
2010 Robert Kipkoech Cheruiyot 2:05:52 Gebregziabher Gebremariam 2:08:14 2:22 Boston
2011 Geoffrey Mutai 2:03:02 Geoffrey Mutai 2:05:06 2:04 Boston
2012 Wesley Korir 2:12:40 CANCELLED
2013 Lelisa Desisa Benti 2:10:22 Geoffrey Mutai 2:08:24 1:58 New York
2014 Meb Keflezighi 2:08:37 Wilson Kipsang 2:10:59 1:22 Boston
2015 Lelisa Desisa Benti 2:09:17 Stanley Biwott 2:10:34 1:17 Boston
2016 Lemi Berhanu Hayle 2:12:45 Ghirmay Ghebreslassie 2:07:51 4:54 New York
2017 Geoffrey Kirui 2:09:37 Geoffrey Kamworor 2:10:53 1:16 Boston
2018 Yuri Kawauchi 2:15:58 Lelissa Desisa 2:05:59 9:59 New York

Women’s race

The Boston course record of 2:19:59 was set in 2014 when it was 61-62F with 2-3 MPH tailwind.
The New york course record of 2:22:31 was set in 2003 when it was 57-66F with 5-6 MPH headwind
Year Boston Winner Time New York Winner Time Difference Fastest race
2008 Dire Tune 2:25:25 Paula Radcliffe 2:23:56 1:29 New York
2009 Salina Kosgei 2:32:16 Derartu Tulu 2:28:52 3:24 New York
2010 Teyba Erkesso 2:26:11 Edna Kiplagat 2:28:20 2:09 Boston
2011 Caroline Kilel 2:22:36 Firehiwot Dado 2:23:15 1:21 Boston
2012 Sharon Cherop 2:31:50 CANCELLED
2013 Rita Jeptoo 2:26:25 Priscah Jeptoo 2:25:07 1:18 New York
2014 Rita Jeptoo (Disqualified) 2:18:57 Mary Keitany 2:25:07
2015 Bizunesh Deba 2:19:59 Mary Keitany 2:24:25 4:26 Boston
2016 Caroline Rotich 2:24:55 Mary Keitany 2:24:26 0:29 New York
2017 Atsede Baysa 2:29:19 Shalane Flanagan 2:26:53 2:26 New York
2018 Desiree Linden 2:39:54 Mary Keitany 2:22:48 17:06 New York

The majority of the time the men’s times are faster in Boston than in New York. The women’s times are more evenly split across the two races. But the course records are both faster in Boston than New York.

Setting world records

You may or may not be aware, that Boston race times do not qualify for world records. There are two reasons for this:

  • The elevation change exceeds the IAAF limits.
  • It falls outside the rule requiring the separation between start and finish to be no more than 50 percent of the race distance. As a result runners can benefit unreasonably from tailwinds (which clearly occurred the year Mutai set the Boston course record)

Finding your stride

Based on the numbers, New York looks like the tougher course, but, I was recently reading the book 26 Marathons by Meb Keflezighi.  In his book he states “People often ask me which marathon course is harder, New York City or Boston. Now that I’ve done both several times I can confidently answer “Boston”. He points out that it’s easier to settle into your pace in New York than Boston.  That long downhill with crowds cheering you at the start of Boston has caused many a runner to go out too fast and pay for it later when they hit the Newton Hills.  The Newton Hills don’t seem that brutal when considered on their own, but hit them at mile 17 and you discover where Heartbreak Hill got its name, especially if you went a little fast in the first half.

Boston is a the more technically challenging course. You can run a great race in Boston, but many experienced runners have been caught up in the first half and paid the price later in the race. It doesn’t matter how many people tell you “don’t go out too fast” your rested legs, the downhill, the crowds and the excitement of running your first Boston result make it tough to not to go out fast.

So after all that, which course is tougher?

From the elevation change and elite race results, you would logically conclude that the New York marathon is the tougher course.

Then you have an experienced runner like Meb confidently saying Boston is tougher.  Now keep in mind Meb has a different race experience from most of us. His job is to place. He has to react to the other runners around him, he does not get to choose his pace for most of the race. The rest of us are just out to run our own race. Aside from dodging runners who were in the wrong corral for the first two miles (a problem you avoid in Boston since everyone except the charity runners are assigned a corral based on a verified qualifying time), you are in control of our own pace and destiny.  So *if* you stick to your game plan you can run a great race in Boston.

Let’s not discount the weather. We all tend to obsessively check the forecast leading up to race day. The coldest temp recorded in New York is 44F, the hottest recorded is 64F.  The coldest temp recorded in Boston is 35F and the hottest recorded is 87F. You run a much higher risk of temperature affecting your run in Boston (they had over 2527 runners were treated by medical staff, most of them for hypothermia in the now infamous 2018 race).

So I’d say your odds of running a good race are better in New York. Let’s be clear though, both of these courses will chew you up and spit you out if you don’t do your hill training, and finishing either is of course a huge accomplishment!

Now which race is more exciting to run…. that’s in part 2!

Here the rest of my running related posts and race reports.